Tuesday, March 16, 2010

A letter from an Axed Member - Learn from the Buffalos

Just Added on 23/3/10 : An encouraging note by Bro Vijay at the end of this article which gives us a better understanding of why the National Christian Bodies are / seems silent on the Calvary Church Saga. Scroll down to read.

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We received this letter which was written to CT in response to this Comment by someone who is identified as Hidden Believer ;

I worship at an AOG church but besides contributing financially (I really dont want to offend God in financial matters),I tend to stay in the background as I have no particular gifting.Last 2 Sundays a strange event happened in our church.During the preaching,the Pastor suddenly started to blast Calvary Today Blog and stated,in an unusually high pitch, that those bloggers have gone astray after Satan.And he started to pray against those instruments of Satan and urged all the church to stand against those demonic forces .His last warning was quite comical, to say the least!!To quote him,"This church does not permit anyone to participate in those Satanic activity"!! Judging by the unusual outburst, I realized for the first time that he may have something to hide.And I decided to to visit your blog straightaway.Why the sudden outburst? I felt sorry for the youth & oldies who were visibly terrified!!I mentioned this incident to my colleagues and we had a good laugh.In fact 1 non- Christian laughed so loud,until her tummy cramped and there were tears in her eyes!!

Hidden Believer


March 16, 2010 10:24 PM
______________________________________

Dear Calvary Today Administrator,

I read the comment which you posted and immediately I remembered a video in the You tube someone asked me to watch. I am very saddened by what some AOG pastors are saying to their congregation on Sunday Worship time. We Christians go to church to hear God’s Word and we are hoping that God has an encouraging word for us so that we can face the many challenges in the office or marketplace. It is sad that pastors use the pulpit to propagate their own personal convictions and not really hearing God and preaching His Word to His children.

I have wondered for a long time why the AOG Council, the NECF and other Christian Bodies in Malaysia are still not aware of what is happening in Calvary Church. If they are aware, then how come they are not helping to solve the problem?

Now I understand a little bit why the AOG council, NECF and other Christian Bodies are not doing anything. They are all run by pastors.

I hope this video will encourage us all that we have to take care of ourselves. We must do like what the buffalos in this video did. Stand united together and support the few in front who are attacking and trying to safe the baby that was caught by the lions. Although there was only one or two fierce buffalo who dare to attack the lions, but the whole group were standing behind to give group support to those few front ones.

If buffalos know how to group together and give group support to the few front leaders to help save a young buffalo in their group from being eaten by the lions…. WHAT ABOUT US? We are not buffalos. We are humans created in the image of God. We cannot let our brothers and sisters in Christ to be called by pastors as satanic.

Calvary Church pastors have bullied the children of God. They have kicked the church members OUT of GOD’S HOUSE. They have no right to kick God’s children out of their Heavenly Father’s House.

Another thing I want to say is, how come the Christian Bodies in Malaysia are not doing anything to help? How come PG can do all the wrong things and still get scot free? Everyday we read in the papers directors are arrested because of CBT, how come PG can still run the church?

Yesterday, I was reading Psalm 20 and verse 7 says, “Some trust in chariots and some in horses…” Yes that is the answer God gave me. PG have worked so hard to make sure he is still the head in all the Christian Bodies so they cannot go against their head. PG is still the Emeritus Superintendant of the AOG Council. PG is still the Advisor of the NECF. So when they approach him for advise as what to do with the TTG, of course PG will say do nothing. Of course PG will advise them that TTG is satanic, so now the pastors of course will say TTG is satanic without investigating the facts first. They must listen to their Advisor. PG is trusting the powerful chariots and horses that he himself is lord over.

TTG brother and sisters, do not be discouraged. We will follow the next part of verse 7, "...but we trust in the Name of the Lord our God."

God will help us even if we are like the buffalos (church members), although the lions (pastors) are attacking us, we will stick together and help our brothers and sisters who are hurt.




We just received this devotional thought in our mail which once again have proven that our God is always Good. He has spoken through this faithful servant a very timely message for us wounded Calvarites again. Indeed, our stand is"...but we trust in the Name of the Lord our God."

David Wilkerson Today

TUESDAY, MARCH 16, 2010
GOD’S ULTIMATE PLAN

By the close of the book of Genesis, God had chosen a small, insignificant
people to become a teaching nation. He wanted to raise up a people who would be
living examples of his goodness to the heathen world. So, to bring about such a
testimony, God took his people into places that were beyond their control. He
isolated Israel in a wilderness, where he alone would be their only source of
life, caring for their every need.

Israel had no control over their survival in that desolate place. ...


God would do it all for them. He would guide them every day by a miracle cloud,
one that glowed at night and dispelled the darkness before them. He would feed
them with angels’ food from heaven and provide them with water from a rock.
Yes, every single need would be supplied by the Lord, and no enemy would be
able to defeat them.

God raised up a people who would be trained by him. There had to be a people
who lived under his authority, who would trust him completely, giving him full
control of every aspect of their lives. That people would become his testimony
to the world.

Why would God want full control of a people and insist on their complete trust
at all times? It was because only God knew the way and he would perform the
impossible that was needed to get them there.


Read this devotion online: http://www.worldchallenge.org/en/node/7897

____________________________________

This is a Comment that Bro Vijay has put in CT to encourage us to stand firm and intercede for Calvary Church. Let us continue to Pray Until Something Happens!

Dear Bro/Sister "Still Waiting".

I have close contacts with National Christian Organisations but unfortunately, and very sadly, none brave enough to make a stand and do the right thing. (Note I am not singling out specific National Christian Organisations as I have good friends in many)

I have had my own share of disappointments and heartbreaks as I observe my brothers/sisters who are committee members of National Christian Organisations chose to remain silent. They are good people - like many of us. They fear God and I think at times they have silently shed tears seeing the situation not only in Calvary Church but other churches too. As I write, I know of 4 churches in the Klang Valley going through leadership crisis that has split the church.

They know the issue and agree with me that the Senior Pastor PG of Calvary Church must graciously step down and leave. Unfortunately, none willing to make a public comment.

Why? - perhaps they feel they are not "good enough" to judge another senior pastor. Perhaps it is because of past relationships or blessings they have received from PG. Perhaps they do not want to be seen as the person to rock the boat of fear they may open a bigger Pandora's box.

All I can tell you is they are doing something but unfortunately the progress is too slow. What is needed is a tipping point - an event that will cause more of the committee members to voice the need for a public statement and to put into pen and paper what they know in the heart is TRUTH.

If more cry out for justice, the voice of many will over shadow the present fear and indifference that still exist in the various National Christian Organisation committees.

This is were we need intercession to tip the tipping point in our favour. You see bro/sis - a prayer worrier has no obligation to see thru a prayer being answered. He/she can say - "if it is God's will" and leave the matter in God's hands.

However, on the other hand an intercessor has counted the cost and lays down his/her reputation (as some of you have done) and DECLARE IT IS THE WILL OF GOD THAT THE SENIOR PASTOR AND HIS CRONIES BE REMOVED AND THE CHURCH RETURNED TO THE RIGHTFUL OWNER - THE HOLY SPIRIT HIMSELF & THE CONGREGATION. THEY WILL NOT TAKE "NO" FOR AN ANSWER.

For those interested in the power of intercession - please refer to Rees Howells Intercessor.

Note - Intercession is not long prayers or repeated prayers - Intercession is an act where you lay down your life for the sake of your bro/sis who are currently suffering under the hands of cruel task masters. In your spirit, you need to come to a position where you forsake your reputation, standing in society and pleasures. Many a times, those closest to you will leave or betray you! You will enter the dark night of the soul where you have only God as your friend. The enemy will never give you rest. At times you feel even God has betrayed you! But at such times, tell Him, "though you slay me - I will still trust YOU!"

This is the kiros time - give Him no rest until your demands are met. This my friends is what the Lord has shown regarding Calvary Church. One day you will look back and see His glory fill the temple and bro/sisters untied and worshiping Him.

GIVE HIM (GOD) NO REST, PRESS ON UNTIL HE GRANTS YOUR REQUEST.

Vijay


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33 comments:

Anonymous said...

Worshipper for 25 years say...

.."Everyday we read in the papers directors are arrested because of CBT, how come PG can still run the church?"

The IP on PG alleged CBT is still opened for further investigation. There will be 6 0r more charges if PG alleged transfered church funds to his private CIM can be proven ? Will you all Weep and Pray for PG if he is handcuffed and charged in the Session Court KL ? The Police Report cannot be withdrawn. Sanction to prosecute is required as he is still a Tan Sri, Ok !

Just petition & demonstrate to get AG to speed up the IP on PG alleged CBT ? When this happened & come to pass, please do not get emotional & do not blame the maker of the Police Report ?

The Lord God will use secular King to remove PG as He did in Blibical times !

Anonymous said...

I heard through the grapevine that something significant is going to happen this weekend at Damansara Perdana.Our group will pray that there will be no unruly behaviour of any kind.Taking placards can turn into something else.If TTG turns unruly- we will personally come looking for you rotan sticks.!! At the same time-this is a momentous time for Christian Community in Malysia.The church has been abused by its gifted leaders for a long time now.Its time to make a stand. AOG Pastors think they can say anything from behind a pulpit and do anything and get away with it under the old guise of " Touch not Gods Anointed". I urge everyone to stand firm and dont give in. Its time to send the SKY People a message. "You cannot take whatever you want and you cannot do whatever you want." Pastor - you are called to serve- not to dominate and, take their money abuse the sheep who meekly sit at your feet." For we do not lord it over your faith , but we work with you for your joy(Paul)'TTG-Dont give up this battle.The AOG pastors may feign ignorance, but I bet many are reading your blogs. I salute all the TTG Group.Your actions have set a precedent for abused Malaysian Christians that we will not sit quietly and take leadership abuses anymore. STAND FIRM TTG. (Many are Praying for you)

MALAYSIA OFF- LINE said...

I have early known that AOG pulpits were filled with fleshy material and I sensed that God would one day bring it through the fire. But little did I realize that it would start at the top.AOG ministers got pride and deceit.To my knowledge most ministers got problems with themselves and other ministers.Just fellowship with their church group and within minutes they would be badmouthing another Christian.If the pews are like that its because the leadership is like that.I have been to AOG churches and most of the Pators treat the church as their private turf- their Sdn.Bhd.There is only one hope for AOG leadership- repent before God exposes your misdeeds.TTG has become a rod in Gods hand.I am very very saddened by the whole sordid episod.But it appears there is no other way.Calvary Leadership--Listen to the prophet Jeremiah or face the King of Babylon.Jeremiah pleads but the Babylonian king will roast you in the fire. Alarmed Christian

Anonymous said...

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall
All the kings men and all his Associate pastors and Deacons,
Could not put Humpty Dumpty back again.

Its too late. The decline has begun. EX- AOG Elder

Anonymous said...

I read in the papers about Calvary. Its so disgraceful to the body of Christ.Finally Calvary has come tumbling down. I noticed that even at the AOG ministers camps the Calvary Pastors only fellowshipped among themselves.(I am a Ministers wife) They will walk in as a group and leave as a group as though they belonged to some elite prestigious club.It was obvious that our fellowship was beneath their dignity.Calvary Staff- you could have done so much to encourage the other ministers by embracing them.But you did not.You were " somebody" and the others were nobodies.Excuse me Sirs- where are you now??There are some things that God hates...." A proud look, Please repent and get back to the fold.Many Pastors are grieved at your behaviour but we wont say it because it might dent your fragile egos. Grieved

Anonymous said...

Luke 20:9
Then Jesus told the people this parable,'There was once a man who planted a vineyard,gave the overall responsibility to Pastors, Deacons and body of believers.When the time came to account for the harvest of grapes,the owner sent an elder for a complete accountability but they removed the elder as soon as he started asking questions about money matters.So the owner sent another group demanding Accountability but the Pastors asked 'What accountability ?Who are you?'.Instead about 400 were axed from the vineyard.Then the owner sent a third group who demanded tranparency but the leaders ignored them too.The owner tried one last attempt and sent another group to handover a memorandum but the only answer they got was- "IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO SEE THEM"

What then will the owner of the vineyard do to those leaders?

Jesus said He will come and kill those tenants and turn over the vineyard to others."

WHEN THE LEADERSHIP HEARD THIS THEY SAID- CERTAINLY NOT!! V16

THE END DRAWETH NIGH FOR CALVARY LEADERSHIP.THE JAPANESE WOULD DHAVE COMMITTED HARAKIRI BY NOW.

Anonymous said...

Calvary church leadership wants what any other political party wants in this country-another term.Pathetic!!The official answers are always the same- unfinished projects,no able leadership to takeover, unsolved problems within the party, internal conflicts....and the list goes on. The truth is this- they need more time to fleece the sheep and cover their misdeeds. And its not just in calvary- Generally AOG churches have this virus.They remind me of a parable Jesus spoke about a dishonest steward . The steward said " What shall I do? I am too old to dig and too ashamed to beg?

Maybe Pastors have no other way of making a living ,like this dishonest steward.AOG Pastors- learn from the parables- not our our politicians.

Reed Shaken By The Wind

Anonymous said...

Last Sunday a visiting AOG Minister screamed-" God called us Pastors into the ministry and only God can remove us!" What nonsense is this? After the service I told him privately in no uncertain terms- If Pastors fail to discharge their responsibilities, the church has the right to remove them. Their mindset seems to be as though they can stay on for life and pass on their ministries to their sons and daughters as an inheritance. What a bunch of jokers!Wake up Pastors.

Anonymous said...

In a shocking case,a Chinese man allegedly killed an 11-year-old boy and ate his brain, believing it would cure his epilepsy.
Chaoxu told police he believed eating the brain with earthworms and ants would cure his illness. He was apparently married to a nurse, who left him because of his illness. Xuetang's mourning mother Yu Chaohu said that her son had disappeared late at night. "It was getting dark, but I couldn't find my son anywhere in the village, the Sun quoted her as saying. She added: "I even asked the village head to broadcast on the radio to ask my son to come back home for dinner."

Last week a colleague asked me what I thought about the above article. I told her that if you are a
Pastor in Calvary Church you dont have to worry about anyone coming after your brains. EX- Calvarites

Anonymous said...

MESSAGE FOR ALL CHRISTIAN LEADERS WHO LOVE MASKS.
The Mask.Every performer and actor on the crowded stage is wearing a Mask.The feelings and the emotions of the audience only lovingly embrace the Mask - a pleasant,loving an appealling face to show the audience.Should any actor by sheer carelessness or negligence make a Mask fall,a far less than attractive face will be revealed to the congregation- and one that few will forget even after the mask is restored.At Calvary, the mask has accidentally slipped off.The damage has been done. And it cannot be undone.The crowd has seen the real face.Step down graciously or be chased out.

The Midnight Owl

Anonymous said...

I noticed that many Christians are against PG having a Tan Sri title. May I ask what is wrong with a Christian having secular titles? Must we flee at any mention of the worlds praise? Isnt the AOG system ridden with self made titles which are not found in the Bible.This so called Reverends, and Drs. If the truth be spoken, most of them graduated with a Diploma in Theology.I believe secular titles are okay for Christians, as long as you did not lick somebody's boots for it.
Somewhere near the TOP.

Anonymous said...

My son told me that last Sunday PG was still asking for $$ for the building project.To me this is clear evidence the PG had backslidden.Raising $$ at a time when the sheep have scattered? Even if the remaining bewitched folks sell and give all that they have-will the money be sufficient to revive the project?A great giant has fallen in our land.If this had happened in another church- the AOG leadership would have said many things and removed the pastor by now.This sad episode has also shown that all AOG leaders are spineless cowards hiding behind various titles.Isnt there no prophet in Christendom to stand up and tell this King Saul off?? PG dont beg any more. Its no befitting for a man of your status. Christians have a right to worship GOd without listening to your crap.

Real Concerned.

Anonymous said...

I am an oldie. Went for a nice jog and while driving back I saw a familiar church group.Thinking I would stop and say hello - but I quickly regretted it. There was this pastor at a teh tarik stall talking about the calvary saga and that too, with the youth group. I was disappointed and soon left. Is this what pastors get paid for these days? What about tracting, Christian witnessing or going to office to prepare for Sundays sermon? Dont they have to observe working hours like the rest? Kampung Chicken

Anonymous said...

My heart still yearns for the good old days anointed preaching at Calvary.I moved to another church and again over the Sunday pulpit- it was building a mega church.Shouldnt the preaching come first? Is there a church somewhere where the unadulterated word of God is preached??Is a mega church really necessary for us or is it our ego at work here? I think if the Goverments restrictions are lifted some Christians would be building a church bigger than the Agongs palace itself!!Everybody wants to build a big building these days but there is very little love and affection. God please help.May God bring the present day church through the fire to bring us back to our senses!!

I once was found, but now am lost.

Anonymous said...

A group of us just returned from Bukit Jalil-the site of the glorious CCC.(Supposed to have our Christmas services there??)Desolation.So this is where all our $$ went? Iron beams sticking out here and there and little pools of water.We were almost bitten to death my mosquitoes.We took many pictures of the abandoned project.Maybe we should release it to the newspapers.Maybe.After witnessing this firsthand we came to this conclusion.The present Calvary leadership are the biggest liars in town now.Even the street conman can learn something from you.Syabas!! Keep up the lies Pastors & Deacons.God is certainly pleased with your works!!

TOOTHLESS CHRISTIANS

Anonymous said...

Our church has a problem too. The Pastor spends more time at the teh tarik stalls in idle chatter with others.Several of us wanted to talk to him about this but we decided to let it be.He never visits the sick or goes witnessing.One thing is for sure though.He would never make it in the secular world.the AOG needs to revamp its training methods.

THE MOTORCYCLIST

Anonymous said...

In my opinion AOG Pastors have problems with themselves. I was told that even in their Bible School dorms they have cliques among themselves- those they can get along and those that they cannot.Later when they start pastoring churches, they only invite their friends- who of course will invite them back.CC is one example.I have never seen PG invite another local minister.It was beneath his dignity.It was always some hotshot from the States or Singapore.Those who pastor smaller churches and no titles- stay out of his way. The whole AOG system needs to be revamped.And I believe the days are already here at CC.TTG- do not be swayed by empty words at Calvary. Stand your ground.I suspect the whole AOG is following this Malaysian Church Sandiwara. CC leadership is a disgrace to the whole Christian community!!

Just woke up.

Anonymous said...

I am a church elder and happen to stumble upon your block. I was quite amused that quite a number of complaints about their own Pastors.I have this to say. If your Pastors spend more time at the tea stalls than in the church office- Do what our church does.Issue him a letter of concern (there will be no pay rise if he does not comply).If you dont dare issue letters out of respect, then dont sit in his company.If there is nobody to talk to, he will go to office soon.We can only partly blame them.Maybe this is the way they spent their time during their training years. ( But I believe there is still hope) Church Elder

Anonymous said...

Its really a pathetic situation we are in.In the NT days, the church was a gathering of believers. Great things happened when they gathered together in Jesus Name. Apostles & Pastors were anointed ministries. But today they have become titles.Today when we gather together- you have a title-so you are higher than me. Then we moved on to secular titles to distinguish us from the common titles.
To my mind- most of the Dr's describing Pastors are of dubious origin.It does not denote any intellectualism.Our church Partor has also got a doctorate.The whole church knows he did not study for it, neither,may I add, he has the brains for it.Where he obtained that title is still a mystery to all of us. SIMONE

Anonymous said...

PG has lost all sense of direction. To be still raising $$$ at a time like this?? All AOG leaders must be stripped of their fancy clothes and titles, given a shorts and t- shirt, and instructed to sweep the church floor for a season.(It can be called servants day) It seems the church is all about themselves.How can a man keep on preaching at a time like this? There are serious issues on the floor and the possibilily of a criminal charge.Come on PG and all your misguided supporters. Get the outcasts together, including Dr. Lum and start talking. Let the healing process begin.Christians are basically forgiving if you are honest with them. I am very disappointed with Calvary Staff and all the other AOG leaders.

Anonymous said...

PG you are a disgrace to our christian believers and community. Stop practicing cronyism and nepotism. Repent and retire for a new church to rise. GOD is forever forgiving if only you just take the first step to acknowledge your mistakes and greed.Don't build your treasure on earth but in heaven.Some of your AOG pastors approve of your doings like going to golf courses to mingle with your sheeps,having your own teh tariks groups,owning big houses and cars, platinum n gold credit cards,holidaying overseas every year and etc. What happen to all the visitation to the old folks home,hospitals,orphanage the widows and so on?Some of you guys have own businesses like home schools which you charge and the income goes to you and not your church which should by right go to help in witnessing or outreach to the poor domestically and abroad.Church goers please also be smart in requesting that even church board members needs to be changed every now and then, or serve for certain term only.Same goes with the pastors and most importantly that there should be tranparency in their accounts.All payrolls should be itemised and not in a lump sum. All you pastors please ask yourselves again why I want to be a pastor?What is your first love Or is it just another profession? How and when do you think you'll have made enough for your own kingdom.Be grateful and thank GOD who is ever forgiving!!! Step down, times up !!

Anonymous said...

BY A CHRISTIAN LAWYER

I was somewhat very grieved when the case was filed in Court.How did it ever reach this stage? I am not so anxious over the older generation.If my actions stumble you, than I have to say that you are weak spirited.But I am really concerned for the young people sitting in church going through this fiasco.I am sure SP did not realize the repercussions of his high handedness when he removed Mr. Lum. There are not many options left. I appeal Calvary leadership not to blindly carry on hoping this episode will somehow go away. Make a historic act of servanthood. Step down because the curtains are falling slowly but surely. This is not about preserving your ricebowl.SP is a gifted speaker.There will always be churches who would glad to invite you.

On the other hand I would also caution anonymous comments here making allegations which are not based on the available evidence.SP leadership=- The court has already granted the injunction.If any of the terms of the Injunction are infringed, SP will be in contempt of Court with a jail sentence following. the Administrative power of the church has already been curtailed.The power is not in their hands anymore. Although this is indeed a pathetic state of affairs, maybe it was necessary for the AOG. Maybe we wont be hearing pastors shouting from a pulpit" if you dont like what I am saying,then get out of the church!This is a new day for the AOG. Governing Gods people is an awesome responsibility.To all AOG leaders reading this, which I know you do, dont treat the church as your private turf.It belongs to all believers."If you dont share our visions,you have to leave" may indeed sound very spiritual, but its the ork of a supercon. With much regrets. FEARING GOD

Anonymous said...

Basically, AOG pastors can be nasty.Just a note of guidance though, If an AOG leader badmouths another Minister, flee his company. That is only the tip of the iceberg. If you keep your ears open, they will pour poison into your ears.I had the misery of being in the Company of such a pastor once- forever commenting on other Churches and Pastors and spreading all kinds of rumours.What he was not aware was that other pastors had nicknamed him King of Gossip.

having a form of godliness but strangers to the powers thereof, from such- turn away.

Anonymous said...

Last Sunady at our church, instead of the usual song and praise, The Pastor started with a prayer for Calvary & TTG.It was such an awkward scene.Not many people were aware of the crisis at Calvary simply because we have no interest.Our interets are in the "bread and butter issue" and sending our children to school, and making sure there are enough meals on the table.Why should he care whats going on in another church? Didnt SP make a statement to the press that all Calvary issues should be dealt within the sanctity of the church? Why the sudden concern for another church? It looked so pathetic & hypocritical seeing him on the knees and praying against the forces of darkness. Maybe he should apply to the TV 3 to act in one of those emotional sandiwaras.I have always had reservations of charsismatic ministers.A bunch of sly characters, if you ask me. AS IT IS

Anonymous said...

There are only 2 things that can enter heaven:your own soul and the souls of other saved person.Calvary Church has wasted money on something that has no eternal value (CCC - 150 million).All this would not have come to this stage if only CC had invested in saving souls because only souls has eternal value

genesispassion said...

lets refresh our memories..the song "trust and obey" . imagine when the organ plays, the choir sing.and sp on stage ..standing before the cross..we as audience standing.some sitting..some walking toward the altar.. deacons ushers leading people down the alley..as the song move..trust and obey..with sp standing there...psychological..he has made himself god over us....he be claiming god anointing ...the holy spirit descending ..well? eevrything was tunned on us yrs after yrs
trust and obey god..which is sp ! we been conned?

genesispassion said...

On Sat May 1, Star and NST carried biznews on Nam Fatt 2009 financial accounts. They are really in bad shape. Even the external auditor cannot qualify the accounts.This contractor may have problems long time ago to come to this stage. Two questions here: 1. Did the Senior Pastor and deacons did a thorough job in awarding the ccc contract to them? 2.Was the contractor honest with the church and Senior Pastor if their problems were there long ago as many in this contracting biz knew?Now senior pastor and deacons have a lot to answer the worshippers and public where tens of million were collected from them. How can senior pastor and deacons with much prayer for God's wisdom ended up "cheated" in this manner? Fundamentally, is this ccc project God's Will or senior pastor's man will?
i copy and paste this from calvary today as it was not accessible .

in any award for main contractor..the main contractor financial standing is one main key ..normally m the client will check last 5 yrs financial reports ..for this case,,nam fatt suddenly zerolized is not a 1 day happening..what were the criterias and process sp and deacons for the c c c award?
or there are some private arrangements ? some pay back in kind ?
it normal in construction industry to have v/o .

from mere 50mil to 150mil? what were the basis ? were these discussed with the members at large or singlely sp decision?

members must demand all minute of all project meetings from the consultants ..an independent body to investigate?

this is publicity accountability ?

the element of god "s senior pastor is not relevant..he cannot be hiding under the pretext of god anymore.

why do we have to succumb to his authority ? he is no longer our s p , just another suspect cheating the members and us.he must be investigated exposed and even the deacons in concert of c c c

Anonymous said...

Anonymous,

God is never in the business of building mega churches that caused millions. The Bible never authorized the apostles to construct buildings of any size for worship. They met at homes & never took any monetary collection to "build a church". The only time a collection of money was taken it was to help each other & to send forth someone to proclaim the gospel. Today,pastors create their own various kinds of tithes, offering, faith promises, pledges, building church funds, even pastor's gift, none of which are instructed in the Bible, and then they misuse them to make a good living. God will never be contained within walls of buildings. Remember, He even had the temple of Jerusalem torn down. Jesus's true church is of individuals that do the will of God, preaching His Word and helping the poor & needy.

CCC never was a call or vision of God or an extension of His Kingdom like one of the lady Assistant Pastor of CC said. Jesus made it very clear that His Kingdom is not of this world (John 18:36). CCC is just an ambition of men to build. If ever one day CCC is completed, it is built by men, NEVER BY GOD.

genesispassion said...

why we allow it in the 1st place?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous,

To genesispassion. I do not know how to answer this. For after a while, I left CC as I find the doctrines & teachings of charismatic/pentecostal churches under AOG unbiblical. Perhaps many at that time had been misled or the voices of those who are against the CCC project were not powerful & strong enough. Perhaps blame can be partly due to the BOD.

I think all of you who remain should be the right people and in a better position to answer why it was allowed in the lst place.

Anonymous said...

My sympathies to all the Calvarites who are going through this difficult period. I agree with anonymous writer here. Jesus was never in the business of building mega churches and most of the offerings collected was for the poor who did not have 2 copper coins to rub together.No wonder the faith spread like wildfire.People were loved and remembered although they had nothing. What a testimony from the Christian churchn then!! Today we only have great titled persons who know how to talk. Of course the worker is worthy of his wages. But the question to ask is this" Will your Rev. be still around if suddenly the church had no money?" I am quite sure the Rev, will move away by quoting this time worn crap from AOG Pastors" God has called me to further my studies!!" It happened to our church. One December the church did not give him a bonus- next year he was off.
My sincere hope that Christians will not be venomous in their comments here. After all- we were stupid enough to be conned by another brother. We let it happen.Our own stupidity!!!

genesispassion said...

thank ano..for yr reply...what about the adinistrators ?

yoong said...

YES, THE ADMINSTRATORS SHOULD GIVE SOME NOTES HERE...! PLS NO MORE BIBLE VERSES..JUST SIMPLE AND STRAIGHT TO THE POINT?